97. Are Women Really Less Happy Than Men?
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摘要
Why are women unhappier than men? What can we do to move the needle? And is it better to be happy or to be good? This episode originally aired on May 1st, 2022.
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中英文字稿 
40年后，我要开始一个播客，好好揭穿你一番。我是安吉拉·达克沃斯。我是斯蒂芬·杜布纳。你正在收听《无愚蠢问题》。今天的节目讨论：为什么女性的幸福感比男性低？作为女性，我当时想，什么？安吉，有一份新的工作论文出自《经济学人》的大卫·布兰奇弗洛与亚历克斯·布赖森，讨论了所谓的女性幸福悖论。你对女性幸福悖论了解吗？我看过那篇论文，但在那篇论文之前，我从未听说过女性幸福悖论。不过，作为标题确实吸引人。它可能比实际情况更有趣，但这是他们对悖论的定义：在幸福方程中，女性比男性更幸福，但在不幸福方程中，女性也比男性更不幸福。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
In 40 years, I'm going to start a podcast and rip you a new one. I'm Angela Duckworth. I'm Stephen Dubner. And you're listening to No Stupid Questions. Today on the show, why are women's happiness levels so much lower than men's? I, as a woman, was like, what? Angie, there is a new working paper out by The Economist's David Blanchflower and Alex Bryson about what's been called the female happiness paradox. Are you familiar with the female happiness paradox? I saw that paper, but I had to say prior to that paper, I had never heard of the female happiness paradox. Makes for a good title, though. It may be a little spicier than it is accurate, but here's how they define the paradox. It's the notion that women are happier than men in happiness equations, but also more unhappy than men in unhappiness equations.
我们应该提到，David Blanchflower（我相信还有Alex Bryson，但尤其是David Blanchflower）多年来一直研究幸福的衡量标准。简单来说，这篇新论文认为我们刚才定义的悖论实际上并不存在，而是由于测量不当造成的猜想。我猜这项发现，即幸福悖论不真实，可能不会引起大多数人的兴趣，或许只有其他幸福研究者会感兴趣。但论文中还有另一个发现，我认为很多人会觉得有趣，那就是平均而言，女性的幸福感明显低于男性。需要说明的是，这种情况并非一直如此，或者至少性别之间的差距以前从未有过现在这么大。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And we should say David Blanchflower, and I believe Alex Bryson, but especially David Blanchflower, has been working on happiness measures for many, many years. And what this new paper argues in a nutshell is that the paradox that we just defined doesn't actually exist and that it's an artifact of poor measurement. Now, I'm guessing this finding that the happiness paradox isn't real will not be of interest to most people, probably just other happiness researches. But there's another finding in the paper, which I think will be interesting to many people, which is that women are, on average, demonstrably unhappier than men. And we should say that has not always been the case, or at least the gap has not always been anywhere near as wide as it is now.
所以我想问你的问题是：你觉得这些研究人员提供的关于女性不幸福的证据有说服力吗？你为什么认为女性系统性地比男性更不快乐？对此有什么可以或应该采取的措施吗？嗯，我同意这篇论文最引人注目的部分就是像“哇，太不可思议了，女性真的很不快乐”。作为女性，我对这种有利于男性的性别差距尤其感兴趣。我们有大量证据表明，女性更容易焦虑，更易患抑郁症。而且，近期男性和女性幸福感之间的差距是否在扩大，我认为这个问题不如差距本身的一贯存在那么重要。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So the question I want to ask you is this. Do you find the evidence that these researchers present on female unhappiness compelling? And why do you think women are systematically less happy than men and what could or should be done about it? Well, I agree that the compelling part of this paper is just like, wow, holy schmoly, women are really unhappy. And as a woman, I'm especially interested in this gender gap that favors men. We have boatloads of evidence that women are more anxious, that they are more likely to be depressed. And whether the gap between male and female happiness is growing in recent times is, I think, secondary to just the consistency, at least, of the gap itself.
我们该如何坚信这些调查结果呢？你知道的，这些是调查数据。目前，苹果手表或Fitbit还没有幸福感测量功能。我本想说，调查数据通常让人觉得信不过，我们不得不依赖调查数据。例如，我们不知道他们是否真的赚了更多的钱，只是人们说他们赚了更多钱。我们也不知道他们是否真的去健身房锻炼了，只是他们声称他们去了。然而，谈到幸福感，没有比询问人们本人更好的衡量方法了。如果有人说他们不幸福，我们又怎么能判断他们是否真的有这样的感受呢？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
How strongly should we believe these findings? You know, this is survey data. There's no happiness measurement on an Apple Watch or a Fitbit yet. I was going to say survey data, which is usually like, oh, gosh, we had to rely on survey data. We don't know whether they really make more money, but people say they made more money. We don't know whether they really went to the gym, but they said they went to the gym. Right. When you talk about happiness, there is no better measure than asking people, you know, if someone says they're unhappy, how else are you going to figure out whether they feel that way?
好的，我在阅读这篇论文时想到一个问题：尽管调查数据显示女性表现得更为焦虑和抑郁，但不要忘记，男性自杀的频率大约是女性的三到三倍半。不过，我们不应简单地认为自杀是我们所讨论的这种不快乐的必然结果或后果，情况可能要复杂得多。另外，我们也应该提到一个原因，就是男性自杀成功率更高是因为他们更倾向于使用枪支等暴力手段。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Well, one wrinkle that I thought of as I was reading this paper is even though women are in the survey data coming off as much more anxious and depressed and so on. Let's not forget men kill themselves at a rate about three or three and a half times more frequently than women. Now, we shouldn't say that suicide is a necessary result or consequence of the kind of unhappiness we're talking about. It's probably quite a bit more complicated than that. We should also say one reason that men typically are more successful at killing themselves is because men are much more likely to use guns. Yeah, violent means.
所以，安吉，考虑到这是基于调查数据的，女性回答这种调查的方式可能与男性不同吗？或许女性在调查中比男性更诚实。或许女性更愿意承认自己不快乐。那么我们如何排除这种可能性呢？当有人问你问题时，性别差异可能反映的是你的绝对坦诚或其他因素，这个可能性是很难排除的。社会期望和许多其他因素都会影响人们如何回答调查。所以你说得对。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So, Angie, given that this is all based on survey data, is it possible that maybe women answer this kind of survey differently than men? Maybe women are more honest than men on surveys. Maybe women are more willing to admit to being unhappy. So how can we exclude that possibility? You can't really exclude the possibility that when somebody asks you a question, the gender difference that's being revealed is your brutal honesty or whatever else. Social desirability, there's lots of things that influence how people answer surveys. So you're right there.
但我想说的是，心理学中有大量的研究发现了相同的结果。比如，流行病学研究中，你会统计抑郁症的症状，这在某种程度上也是自我报告，因为人们告诉你他们睡得不好、吃得不对。尽管如此，我们从多个角度获得了大量证据，所以我认为这些结果相当稳固。不过，你看，你是个男的，我是个女的。有人可能会说：“哦，我听说过一篇叫Blanche Flower的论文，我猜每个男人都比每个女人更快乐。” 我想强调的是，平均来说确实存在一些差异。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But I think when I say that there are boatloads of studies in psychology that have found the same thing, for example, epidemiological studies where you count symptoms of depression, again, in a way it's self-report because the person's telling you they're not sleeping well, they're not eating right. But there's so much evidence from converging angles that I think it's pretty well established. But, you know, look, you're a guy, I'm a girl. Somebody could say, oh, I heard about this Blanche flower paper. I guess every guy is happier than every gal. And I do want to just underscore that there are differences on average.
换句话说，你是在说可能有哪个女人比我更快乐。理论上是有可能的。只是可能而已。我知道，这很难相信。而且这个人可能就是你。实际上，我认为你和我都不是这个结论的好模范。看我，我就像只小兔子，总是相当易怒、没耐心，对自己和别人感到沮丧。而你有时会发脾气，但大多数情况下，你总是非常积极。不过，对于那些并不完全快乐的女性，还有男性，我想说的是，问问自己，安吉会怎么做？然后照着做。或者相反，问问自己，斯蒂芬会怎么做？然后别那么做。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
In other words, it is possible that there's some woman out there who's happier than me is what you're saying. It's possible, theoretically. Just possible. I know. Hard to believe. And it's probably you. And in fact, I would argue that you and I are terrible models for this finding. Yeah, look at me. I'm like a little bunny rabbit. I am fairly cranky and impatient and frustrated with myself and others. You'll have an outburst now and again, but mostly you're relentlessly positive. But to all the less than ideally happy women out there and to all the men, too, I would just say, ask yourself, what would Angie do? And then do that. Or conversely, you could ask yourself, what would Stephen do? And don't do that.
在我们讨论具体的解决方案之前，我有点想知道到底发生了什么。我记得在这篇工作论文之前曾看过相关内容。顺便说一下，我很喜欢看到经济学家试图搞清楚事情真相时的表现。就像闯入你的领域把一切搅得一团糟一样，难道你要这么说吗？像是穿着笨重的战斗靴闯入？不过，我认为他们在某一方面做得非常好：他们总是用非常复杂的统计技术来探究事情的真相。所以，当经济学家和大量的心理学研究达成一致时，我们就能真正相信存在性别差距。问题是，为什么会存在这种差距。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Before we get to prescription, though, like what the heck is going on? And I remember reading about this prior to this working paper, which, by the way, I love it when economists try to figure out what's going on with something. Stomp into your field and make a mess of it. Is that what you're about to say? With their heavy combat boots? Well, I think they do one thing very, very well. They're always looking with very sophisticated statistical techniques at what's really going on. So when the economists agree with all the boatloads of psychology research, then I think we have real confidence that there is a gender gap. And the question is why.
我记得多年前我问过这个问题。哎呀，拿出酒杯，我的博士导师是Marty Seligman，来，喝一杯。拉金姆。他有一位研究生。不是我的错，他刚好有一位研究性别差异与反刍（反复思考消极事件）方面的世界顶级专家作为研究生。哦，真有趣。她的名字是Susan Nolan Huxama。不幸的是，她年轻时就去世了，但她曾是耶鲁大学的一位非常资深的教授。她研究反刍，并记录性别差异在抑郁症中的表现，她认为这在很大程度上可以通过性别差异中的反刍行为来解释，这种行为是对发生在我们身上的消极事情的反复思考。她利用这一发现不仅解释了女性中更高的抑郁症发病率，还解释了更高的焦虑症发病率。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So I remember asking this years ago. My, oh, gosh, get out the shot glass. My Ph.D. advisor, Marty Seligman, drink up. Lachim. He had a graduate student. It's not my fault that he happened to have like the world's expert in gender differences in rumination as his graduate student. Oh, interesting. And her name was Susan Nolan Huxama. Sadly, she died young, but she was a very, very senior professor at Yale. And she studied rumination. And what she documented is that the gender differences in depression, that this could be in large part explained by gender differences in rumination, this kind of obsessive rehashing of negative things that happen to us. She used this to explain not only higher rates of depression in women, but also higher rates of anxiety.
我认为苏珊并没有真正找到最深层的根本原因，因为你可以继续问：为什么女性更多地反复思考问题？我觉得这个问题并没有被完全解释清楚。可能有上百个因素，对吧？白兰克劳尔和布赖森确实进行了很多数据分析，但他们也整合了许多现有的数据。有一件事我觉得非常有趣。他们利用跨国家和不同时间的数据写道，无论使用哪种测量方法，我们发现女性的快乐程度低于男性，包括焦虑、抑郁、恐惧、悲伤、孤独、愤怒，女性还经历了更多心理健康不佳的日子和更容易失眠。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I don't think that Susan ever got to the deepest root cause because you could then ask, why do women ruminate more? I don't think that's fully explained. There could be a hundred factors, right? Blanchelauer and Bryson did do a lot of data analysis themselves, but they also roll up a lot of the existing data. Here's one thing that I found really interesting. Using data across countries and over time, they write, we show that women are unhappier than men, irrespective of the measure used. Anxiety, depression, fearfulness, sadness, loneliness, anger, and they have more days with bad mental health and more restless sleep.
作为一个外行，我将其理解为对自身内部因素感到不满。但他们也写到，女性对生活的许多方面，如民主、经济、教育和卫生服务的状态不太满意，这些是外部因素。我们因此可以思考，我们的世界是如何构建的，是否在某种程度上对男性更有利？我们可以说，关于劳动成果、家庭照顾和家庭责任等方面，有很多证据表明答案是非常显然的：是的，男性拥有更多优势。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So I, as a lay person, read that as being unhappy about internal factors, about the self. But then they also write, women are also less satisfied with many aspects of their lives, such as democracy, the economy, the state of education and health services, which are external causes. It leads us to say, well, let's look at how the world is set up and is the world set up demonstrably better for men than women? And we can say there's a lot of evidence that in terms of labor outcomes, in terms of family care and home responsibility and so on, the answer is demonstrably yes.
有一个有趣的现象是，在教育成果方面，过去的情况显然不是这样。但现在则相反。现在女性在教育中表现得更好。她们上大学的比例更高，我相信她们的毕业率也更高。但是我认为有很多外部因素需要纳入这个讨论。所以，安吉，我的意思是，我不确定这个问题是否能完全用心理学来解答。然而，既然我刚才提到了几个与经济有关的因素，你认为我们应该如何将心理因素和经济因素结合起来看待这个问题呢？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
One interesting wrinkle is that in terms of educational outcomes, the answer used to be demonstrably less. Right now it's the opposite. It is. Basically, women do better in education. They go to college at a higher rate. They graduate, I believe, at a higher rate also. But there are a lot of external factors that I think need to be brought into this conversation. So I guess, Angie, what I'm saying is I'm not sure if this question can fully be answered by psychology. But given that I've just listed a few economic-ish factors, how do you think we should look at bringing those two together, the psychological factors and the economic factors?
我觉得这一点也应该有个饮酒游戏，但我认为这两方面都存在，对吧，Stephen？这其中有内在和外在的因素可能导致了这种性别差异。我们来谈谈外在因素。除了教育成果之外，男性普遍挣钱更多。最近我看到了一些证据，比如当你是像我这样的教授时，收到的教学评价中有证据显示，学生对女性教授的要求可能比对男性教授更严格。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I feel like there should be a drinking game for this too, but like, I think it's both and, Stephen, right? There are both internal and external factors that might account for this gender difference. Let's talk about the external ones. Apart from educational outcomes, men are making more money. There's evidence that I was just looking at the other day where, for example, when you're a professor like me and you're getting teaching evaluations, there's some evidence that students can be tougher on female professors than on male professors.
有一些证据表明，当一个女性表现出关心和同情时，人们往往觉得这是理所当然的，是常规表现。但因为对男性关心和同情的期望比较低，所以当一个男性上司问“你的周末过得怎么样？”时，人们会感到非常惊喜，认为他非常好，是个很棒的上司，真是个好人。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
There's some evidence that when a woman is caring and compassionate, you just sort of meet the expectation. You're par for the course. But because the expectations for men for being caring and compassionate is lower, then when the male boss says, like, so, how was your weekend? Oh, my God, he was so nice. He's such a wonderful boss. What a nice guy. What a nice guy.
顺便说一下，在美国以外的地方，当你谈论谁的境况更好时，女性还是男性，你会发现其他国家和文化中有一些令人震惊的不公平现象。我不是世界学者，但我记得我18岁时去了日本，那是在高中和大学间的暑假。我获得了斯巴鲁奖学金。斯巴鲁是一家汽车公司，曾在我的家乡新泽西州的樱桃山开设了一个办事处。因此，他们选择了一名高中生在夏天去日本生活，而由于一些我也说不清的原因，他们选择了我。我在那里度过了整个夏天。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And, by the way, outside of the borders of the United States, then when you talk about, like, hey, who has it better? Women or men. And you look at other countries and cultures. Oh, my gosh. There are shocking examples of terribleness, essentially. I am not a world scholar. But I remember I traveled in Japan. I was 18. It was the summer between high school and college. And I had gotten this Subaru scholarship. Subaru, the car company, had opened an office in my hometown of Cherry Hill, New Jersey. And so they sent one high school student off for the summer to live in Japan. And for reasons that I cannot fully recreate, they chose me. I lived there for a full summer.
我寄宿家庭的父亲常常在凌晨一点左右喝得酩酊大醉回家。有时候我会熬夜等他聊聊天。他会说一些类似“日本男人”之类的话，然后把手举起来，再把手往下移大约两英尺，说“日本女人”。我当时就觉得，这很有意思。顺便说一句，那是80年代的事情了。我相信现在情况已经改变了。在我潜意识里，我告诉自己，40年后，我会开一个播客，好好批评你一番。哦，亲爱的日本寄宿父亲。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And my host father would come home totally smashed at, like, one in the morning. And I would sometimes stay up to talk to him. And he would say things like, Japanese man, here. And he would put his hand up. And then he would lower his hand by about two feet. And he would say, Japanese woman, here. And I was like, well, that's interesting. By the way, that was the 80s. I'm sure things have changed. And in the back of your mind, you said, in 40 years, I'm going to start a podcast and rip you a new one. Oh, Japanese exchange father.
我当时心想，哇，他真是他所在文化的产物，以至于他自己都没有意识到他说话的方式。他甚至不知道他说的话有多糟糕，因为这就是他熟悉的一切。他就像一条在这样的环境中长大的鱼。因此，我想说，我们已经掌握的信息足够让我们明白，女性的生活质量客观上并不如男性。而且就拿我们国家来说，疫情期间的数据显示，育儿和家务的责任增加了，这些责任主要落在了谁的肩上？显然主要是女性。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I was thinking, like, wow, he's such a product of his culture that he doesn't even hear himself speaking. He doesn't even know how awful it is, what he just said, because this is all he knows. He's a fish who grew up in this water. So I'll just say that you don't need much more information than we have already to know that women don't live objectively as good lives. And again, back to our country, the data that came out during the pandemic about this increase in child care responsibilities and housekeeping, like whose shoulders did it fall on? Definitely disproportionately fell on women's.
与此相关的是一篇由保拉·英格兰、安德鲁·莱文和艾玛·米歇尔于2020年发表的论文，名为《美国性别平等进展已减缓或停滞》。他们在文中指出，1970年至2018年间，美国在推动性别平等方面取得了显著进展。并不是说2018年后就没有进展了，这只是他们数据研究的截止时间。但他们也提到，近年来这种变化有所减缓或停滞。要取得进展，可能需要增加男性在家庭和护理工作中的参与，政府提供托儿服务，以及雇主采取政策减少性别歧视，帮助男女双方在工作与家庭责任之间找到平衡。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Related to that, there is a paper from 2020 by Paula England, Andrew Levine and Emma Michelle. It's called Progress Toward Gender Equality in the United States Has Slowed or Stalled. They write, we show dramatic progress in movement toward gender equality between 1970 and 2018. It's not like things stopped in 2018. I gather that's when the data ended, when they were measuring it. But also that in recent decades, change has slowed or stalled. Progress, they write, may require increases in men's participation in household and care work, government provision of child care and adoption by employers of policies that reduce gender discrimination and help both men and women combine jobs with family care responsibilities.
这就暗示了某种程度上的解决方案。同时，对于任何想要生活在对女性最友好的国家的人来说，以下是美国新闻的一项调查。可以让我猜一下吗？当然可以，是像丹麦这样的斯堪的纳维亚国家吗？答对了。排名前三的国家是挪威、瑞典和丹麦。我应该说明一下，这个排名是根据来自不同国家的大约8000名女性的问卷回复得出的。排行榜涵盖了五个同等权重的属性：该国家是否重视人权、是否存在性别平等、收入平等、进步以及安全。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So that suggests a, quote, solution to some degree. Also, for anyone wanting to live in a country that's ranked as being best for women, here's a survey from U.S. News. Can I guess? Please, yeah. Is it Scandinavian countries like Denmark? Very good. So the top three countries are Norway, Sweden and Denmark. This is, I should say, based on survey responses from around 8,000 women in different countries. And the ranking includes five equally weighted attributes. Whether the country cares about human rights, whether there's gender equality, income equality, progress and safety.
前十名中，首先有瑞典、丹麦、挪威、加拿大、荷兰、芬兰、瑞士、新西兰、德国和澳大利亚。这其中有让你感到惊讶的吗？没有。而且我觉得我愿意住在其中任何一个国家。但如果我们谈论可能的变化，无论是内部的还是外部的，我碰到了一些东西。我想读给你听，看看它是否让你有任何想法。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So the top 10, you got the first few, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Canada, the Netherlands, Finland, Switzerland, New Zealand, Germany and Australia. Does anything there surprise you at all? No. And I think I would like to live in any of those countries. But if we're talking about potential changes, whether they're internal or external, I came across something here. I want to read it to you and see if it brings anything to mind.
这是皮尤研究中心的一项调查。调查采取开放式问题，要求参与者说出他们认为社会最看重男性和女性的特质或特点。以下是人们认为对男性最有价值的五个特质：第一，诚实和道德；第二，职业和财务上的成功；第三，雄心壮志和领导能力；第四，力量和坚韧；第五，勤奋工作或良好的职业道德。这些是我们认为对男性来说有价值的特质。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
This is a survey from the Pew Research Center. It was an open-ended survey asking participants to name the traits or characteristics that they believe society values most in men and women. Here are the five most common traits that are thought to be valuable for men. Number one, honesty and morality. Number two, professional and financial success. Number three, ambition and leadership. Four, strength and toughness. And five, hard work or good work ethic. That's what we think is valuable in a man.
以下是我们认为女性身上有价值的特质：第一，外貌吸引力；第二，同情心、关爱或善良；第三，智力；第四，诚实和道德（这是男性榜单上的第一位）；第五，抱负或领导能力（这是男性榜单上的第三位）。你认为这些期望是否可能与我们在女性中看到的幸福感下降有关？我对这些排名并不感到兴奋，但也不感到意外。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Here's what we think is valuable in a woman. Number one, physical attractiveness. Number two, empathy or nurturing or kindness. Number three, intelligence. Number four, honesty and morality, which was number one on the male list. And number five, ambition or leadership, which was number three on the male list. Do you think those expectations might be connected to the levels of unhappiness we're seeing in women? I'm not thrilled with those rankings, but I'm not surprised either.
长期以来，进化理论学者认为，男性对女性的生物学评判主要基于她们的外表吸引力，就像是她们能够传递给下一代的基因优良特征。而对于男性，进化论的观点则是，人们通常希望有一个保护者，一个能够成为领袖的人。这是否是男女幸福感差异的来源呢？这种差异的确可以归结于许多女性对自己外貌的不满情绪。我们不只是谈论厌食症或身体变形障碍，这些问题在女性中比在男性中更为普遍。有证据表明，大家目前都在担心的社交媒体对女性或女孩的影响可能比对男性和男孩的影响更大。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
For a long time, evolutionary theorists have said that women are judged biologically by men based on their physical attractiveness, like the sort of genetic endowments that you're going to pass on to the next generation. Whereas men, you know, the evolutionary argument goes like, well, you want a protector, you want someone who's going to be the alpha. Is this the source of the male-female happiness gap? I suppose one could certainly point to the enormous unhappiness that many women have about how they look. We're not just talking about anorexia or body dysmorphia, which, of course, is much, much, much more prevalent among women than men. There's some evidence that social media, which everyone is worried about right now, that its influence on women or girls could be greater than on men and boys.
我在思考关于青春期期间出现的性别差异研究。我不知道在五岁、六岁、七岁时男孩和女孩在幸福感上有很大的差异。当我们进入青春期，性成熟等，才出现明显的差异。这时，女性或女孩才开始陷入沉思。这个研究结果让我感到非常惊讶，尽管不应该惊讶。你也觉得惊讶吗？嗯，回想起来，我和你一样并不意外，但我第一次看到时想，真的吗？这居然是女性的首要问题？我觉得这很疯狂。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think about the research on these gender differences emerging during puberty. I'm not aware that there are big gender differences in happiness at five, at six, at seven. It's when we reach puberty and we become sexually reproductive, et cetera, that you get this chasm that opens up. It's then when women start to ruminate or, I guess, girls. One reason that this list kind of struck me as really surprising, although it shouldn't be. It surprised you? Well, I guess like you, I am not surprised in retrospect, but when I first saw it, I thought, really? That's number one for women? I think it's nuts.
但这让我想起，我们最近和一个家庭朋友共进晚餐，我们的两个孩子都刚好从大学回来。第二天，我们收到了这位朋友的一张便条，上面写着：“这次真愉快，谢谢你们的晚餐，等等。” 然后她评论了孩子们，看着他们逐渐长大，其中提到我们的儿子：“看到他对工作如此认真和充满热情，真是太好了。” 关于我们的女儿，她则说：“她真漂亮。哦，她的暑期实习听起来也很不错。” 而且这位朋友恰好是一位女士。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But it reminded me, we recently had dinner with a family friend and both our kids were home from college. And we got a note the next day from the friend just saying, you know, it was fun. Thanks for dinner, da, da, da, da, da. Then the commentary on seeing the kids who are getting kind of grown up and said about our son. It's great to see him so serious and passionate about his work. And your daughter, she's so beautiful. And oh, yeah, her summer internship sounds like it's going to be pretty neat, too. And this was a friend who happens to be a woman.
我认为她非常有智慧、理性、聪明，见多识广等等。她说那个男孩不太好看，或者女孩对自己追求的事情不是那么有热情和才华。我相信她绝对不是这个意思。但这确实看起来像是一种默认的思维模式。是的，这种观点认为我们对女性最重视的特质是她们的外貌。我认为这种看法几乎没有什么好处，说实话。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I would consider her extremely enlightened, sensible, smart, experienced and so on. She's saying either the boy's not so good looking or the girl's not so passionate and talented in what she's pursuing. And I'm sure she didn't mean that at all. But it does seem like the default mode. And yeah, this notion that the most valuable trait that we attribute to a woman is physical attractiveness. I think there's almost no upside to that, honestly.
那么让我们来做一个自我反思。我在回想那些时候别人给我看他们孩子的照片时的情景。我发现自己在餐会上也有过这样的评论。我到底有多少次对别人的儿子说过，哇，他好帅或者他真英俊。但是当我看别人女儿的照片时，我经常这样说。这其实不太好。我想这就是为什么我更喜欢看狗狗的照片，因为就没有这些问题。我必须承认，我肯定也这样做过。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So let's do a little self-audit. Now I'm thinking about the times when somebody has shown me pictures of their children. Because I am recognizing myself a little bit in that dinner party comment. How many times have I said of somebody's sons, like, wow, they're so handsome or they're so gorgeous. But I find myself saying that a lot when I'm showing pictures of people's daughters. And that's not good. I guess this is why I prefer to look at pictures of dogs. You don't have that issue. I have to say I'm sure I've done it.
我想，大概在一百万年前，有人，也许是我的母亲，一直告诉我，当你试图赞美某人时，这不应该是你想到的第一件事。这与性别歧视、厌女或不公平无关，而是因为你的外貌特征并不是你努力的结果。当然，也许你很注重保养，做各种皮肤和头发护理等，那真的很棒。但是，直接说“哦，你是人类中长得好看的那一类”，这个开场白有点奇怪。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But I think that somewhere a million years ago, somebody, maybe my mother, drummed it into me that that's not the first thing that should come to mind when you're trying to compliment someone. It's not about being sexist or misogynist or inequitable, whatever. But it's about the fact that your physical attributes are not the result of anything you've done. Now, maybe you take good care of yourself. Maybe you do all kinds of skin and hair treatment, yada, yada, yada. OK, great. But really, it's like, oh, you are a good looking specimen of the human race. That's a strange lead.
我更愿意这样说：“哇，你提出的想法真有趣。”或者，“你讲的那个故事真搞笑，也真奇怪。”又或者，“哇，你一定很努力才能在某个方面如此出色。”而不是只是说：“哇，你长得真好看，你的头发真有光泽，身材高挑。”这不应该是评价一个人最重要的标准。是否正因为如此，女性常感不快乐？因为我们往往更强调她们的外貌，而不是她们的性格或成就。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I'd much rather say, wow, that was a really interesting idea you came up with. Or that story you told was really funny and weird. Or, wow, you must have worked hard to become that good at X, Y, or Z. As opposed to, wow, you're physically attractive. What lustrous hair you have. Wow, you're a great height. It can't be the most important thing about a person. Is this why women are more unhappy? Because we tend to emphasize their attractiveness over their character or over their accomplishments?
再说一次，我不知道。这不可能是唯一的因素，但很可能有所影响。接下来在《没有愚蠢问题》节目中，斯蒂芬和安吉拉将讨论性别差异与幸福感的潜在解决方案。为了更快乐，女性可以尝试放弃过于追求完美。在我们回到斯蒂芬和安吉拉关于女性幸福的讨论之前，让我们听听大家对此的看法。我们询问了听众，想知道他们认为性别如何影响了自己的幸福感。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Again, I don't know. It can't be the only thing, but it might well contribute. Still to come on No Stupid Questions, Stephen and Angela discuss potential solutions to the gender differences and happiness. To be happier, women should try giving up on being good. Before we return to Stephen and Angela's conversation about women's happiness, let's hear some of your thoughts on the subject. We asked listeners to let us know how they think their gender has shaped their happiness.
这是你的看法。身为男性，我知道在日常生活中有很多事情我不必像女性那样去担心或考虑，比如暴力、骚扰，或者在工作会议上自信发表意见的自由。这些都对我的心理健康有很大帮助。我显然从中受益。但与此同时，我从小接受的许多关于脆弱性和情感的男性规范，却常常让人感到孤独。我认为人们对男性在情商和情绪调节能力方面的期望较低，这变成了一种自我实现的预言。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Here's what you said. So being a man, there's a lot of things that I know I don't have to worry or think about on a day-to-day basis the way that women do. Like violence, harassment, or even feeling free to be assertive in a meeting at work. And all that stuff adds up to huge benefits to my mental well-being. Obviously, I benefit from that. But at the same time, a lot of the male norms that I grew up with around vulnerability, emotions, things like that, really leave you feeling lonely. And I think we have these lowered expectations of men when it comes to emotional intelligence and our ability to regulate our emotions. And it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
在我公开变性之前，大多数人把我视作“男人”，那时我感觉大多数人都接受我。但我也对自己的身份感到很不自在和不快乐。现在我已经正式公开出柜，我在每时每刻都觉得更加开心。我感觉更自在，能够做自己想做的事情。然而，当我在其他人周围时，总有一种不安感。家庭会带着孩子绕开我走过马路。就在前几天晚上，我在自己社区散步时遭到了攻击。我发现找工作和住房变得更加困难。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So before I came out as transgender, when I was perceived by most people to be a man, quote-unquote, I felt generally accepted by most people. But I was also deeply uncomfortable and unhappy in my skin. But now that I am officially out, I feel much happier on a moment-to-moment basis. I feel more comfortable being and doing what I want. But there's also a general unease when I'm around other people. Families will take their kids and cross the street to avoid me. The other night, I was attacked while I was just going for a walk in my neighborhood. I'm finding it harder to find work and housing.
尽管有这么多限制条件，我还是更喜欢这样，而不是别的选择。你知道，作为跨性别者，这是一种付出与收获的过程。但我的性别在我的幸福中扮演着矛盾的角色。我的名字是Marybeth Diggle，我是一个生活和工作在比利时的美国公民。离我在佛兰德歌剧院推出一部新歌剧只剩几周时间了，这部歌剧探讨了表演界中的性别不平等。当我和别人谈论工作中的性别不公时，我通常这样解释：想象一下，你看过的所有电影都是由女性创作和编写的，而只有少数几部是由男性创作的。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And yet, even with all of those caveats, I prefer this to the alternative. So, you know, it's a give and a take when you're transgender. But my gender plays conflicting roles in my happiness. My name is Marybeth Diggle. I'm an American citizen living and working in Belgium. And I'm just a few weeks away from premiering a new opera for the Flemish Opera, which looks at gender inequality within the performance world. When I talk to people about gender injustice in my job, I try to break it down like this. Imagine that all the movies you've ever seen were created and written by women. And just a handful were created by men.
我们不得不举办特别的节庆活动来宣传男性的能力。这会让你有什么感受？我相信我的个人幸福感取决于我是否被欢迎讲述一个故事。因此，我最近才体会到真正的幸福是什么样的。这段是由斯蒂芬·兰伯特、克洛伊·斯凯和玛丽贝丝·迪格尔分别讲述的。感谢他们以及所有向我们分享想法的人。现在，回到斯蒂芬和安吉拉关于女性幸福悖论的最新研究的对话中。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And we had to hold special festivals to promote how capable men are. How would that make you feel? I believe my personal well-being depends on whether or not I'm welcome to tell a story. So, therefore, I have only recently experienced what true happiness could feel like. That was, respectively, Stephen Lambert, Chloe Skye, and Marybeth Diggle. Thanks to them and to everyone who sent us their thoughts. Now, back to Stephen and Angela's conversation about the recent research on the female happiness paradox.
回到这个看似无法调和的数据悖论，是否可能女性平均来说既有更高的快乐，也有更高的不快乐？换句话说，是否她们可能会经历更高的高峰和更低的低谷？也许在大约40年前，心理学上认为快乐和不快乐只是彼此的正负对照。所以可以只测量不快乐的程度，然后简单地取反，就能知道一个人有多快乐，对吗？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Getting back to the notion of this paradox where the data didn't seem to be reconcilable, couldn't it also be that women, on average, can have higher happiness and higher unhappiness as well? In other words, higher highs and lower lows? Maybe 40 years ago or so, in psychology, happiness and unhappiness were just photo negatives of each other. So you could just be efficient and only measure unhappiness, and then you just, like, use a minus sign, and then you could tell how happy somebody was, right?
结果发现，幸福感和不幸福感，或者用心理学术语来说，正向情绪和负向情绪并不是简单的互为反面。如果它们是反面的，那么我们的数据中它们的相关系数应该是负1，但实际上大约为负0.3。也就是说，如果一个人有很多正向情绪，你可以猜测他们的负向情绪很少，但这并不是绝对的关系。其实，我曾经进行过一项研究，研究对象是正在进行试管婴儿（IVF）疗程的女性。她们正在接受激素注射，该研究是我和我的妹妹一起做的，她是生殖内分泌学专家。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But it turns out that happiness and unhappiness, or in psychological terms, positive affect and negative affect are not just reverse of each other. If they were, they would be correlated at negative 1 in our data, but they're correlated at about negative 0.3. Okay, wow. Meaning that, yeah, if somebody's got a lot of positive affect, you could guess that they have not a lot of negative affect, but it's not a perfect relationship. I mean, I did a study, actually, of women going through IVF. So they were getting these hormone shots, and this is a study that I did with my sister, who's a reproductive endocrinologist.
我们给在治疗周期中某个阶段接受大量激素治疗的女性提供了积极情感和消极情感的量表。我记得分析数据时，我很惊讶，这些接受大量激素注射的女性在积极情感和消极情感方面的得分都非常高。她们的情感非常丰富。这表明你可以同时拥有两种情感，而在某些心理障碍中也可能同时缺乏这两种情感。这并不只是简单的“不开心”而已。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And what we did was we gave women who were on this regimen at a certain point in the treatment cycle where they were getting a lot of hormones, we gave them these scales of positive affect and negative affect. And I remember analyzing the data, and I was like, holy schmoly, these women who are being shot up with all these hormones are, like, off the charts on positive affect and negative affect. They just have a lot of affect. So there's lots of examples of how you can have both, and you can also have absence of both in some psychological disorders. It's not just that you're unhappy.
这更像是你情绪不多。哦，有趣。因此，它们是不同的，这就是为什么你需要分别评估它们。作为一个人，你可以问自己两个问题：我有多快乐？我有多不快乐？如果你用诸如“我有多自豪？”“我有多兴奋？”“我有多乐观？”这样的词语来问自己，你可以给出答案。但是，当你问“我有多焦虑？”“我有多担忧？”“我有多沮丧？”时，你会发现，当你回答这些问题时，它们并不仅仅是相互对立的。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
It's more like you just don't have a lot of emotion going on. Oh, interesting. So these are different, and that's why you have to separately measure them. And as a human being, you can ask yourself two questions. How happy am I? And also, how unhappy am I? If you use words like, how proud am I? How excited am I? How optimistic am I? You can give yourself answers, but then you're like, well, how anxious am I? How worried am I? How down am I? You'll find, when you just answer those questions, that they're not just the inverse of each other.
我们对心理治疗中女性与男性的比例了解多少？让我来猜测一下。我认为女性更可能去接受心理治疗。首先，当谈论焦虑和抑郁时，尤其是其他类型的心理疾病，女性的患病率通常更高。这可能是为什么如果你随便走进一家心理治疗诊所，你会发现里面女性比男性多的原因之一。另外，我认为女性更有可能接受治疗，不仅仅是心理疾病，还有很多其他的医疗问题。我认为愿意寻求帮助是一件好事。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
What do we know about the ratio of women to men in psychotherapy? I am going to take a guess. I think that women are more likely to be in therapy. First of all, the rates of psychopathology, especially when you're talking about anxiety and depression, but other forms of psychopathology too, have a higher base rate for women. So that would be one reason why if you just dropped into a psychotherapist's office at any given point, you would find more women than men. But also, women are, I think, more likely to get treated, not just for mental illness, for lots of medical things. I would argue that the willingness to go get help is a good thing.
让我问你最后一个问题，安吉，这是关于这篇文章的。有一个很有趣的发现，作者写道，分析人员一直在使用美国普查局进行的一项新的调查来追踪美国的心理健康状况。这项调查叫做“美国普查家庭脉动调查”，自2021年4月开始进行。通过对数据的分析，直到2021年12月，作者发现男性的焦虑水平较低，担忧较少，比女性更少表示不快乐和抑郁。因此，在2020年和2021年，女性受到疫情的影响比男性更大。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Let me ask you one last thing, Angie, from this paper. Something I found really interesting, the authors write, analysts have been tracking mental health in the United States using a new survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. It's called the U.S. Census Household Pulse Survey. And it's been running just since April 2021. Analyzing these data through to December 2021, these authors found that men had lower levels of anxiety, worried less, and were less likely than women to say they were unhappy and depressed in 2020 and 2021. So women were affected even more by the pandemic than men were.
这项新的心理健康调查让我非常感兴趣。我很想知道你对这个家庭脉搏调查有什么了解吗？你手头有这个调查吗？我没有，但我可以查找一下。他们试图测量核心的人口家庭特征，并继续询问有关COVID-19疫苗接种、教育、就业、食物充足性、家庭开支、家庭能源开支和消费、住房安全、身体和心理健康、来自州和地方政府的租房援助、性取向和性别认同，以及交通等问题。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But this new mental health survey was very interesting to me. I'm curious if you know anything about this Household Pulse Survey. So you don't have the survey handy, do you? I don't have the survey. I can look it up, though. So they're trying to measure core demographic household characteristics, as well as continuing to ask questions about COVID-19 vaccinations, education, employment, food sufficiency, household spending, household energy expenditures and consumption, housing security, physical and mental health, rental assistance from state and local governments, sexual orientation and gender identity, and transportation.
所以，其中很多显然是他们在使用的人口统计指标。这些指标不是主观的，而是客观的。当然，有一些是客观的，但他们还提出了一些问题来了解情绪和心理健康等方面。在过去的两周里，你是否常常感到情绪低落、沮丧或绝望？在过去的四周内，你是否曾服用处方药来帮助你处理情绪、注意力、行为或心理健康问题？在过去的四周内，你是否需要心理健康专业人士的咨询或治疗，但由于某些原因没有得到这些服务，等等。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So a lot of those, plainly, are demographic markers that they're using. They're not subjective, they're objective. Well, there are some that are objective, but then here are a few of the questions they're asking to get at mood and mental health and so on. Over the last two weeks, how often have you been bothered by feeling down, depressed or hopeless? At any time in the last four weeks, did you take prescription medication to help you with any emotions or with your concentration, behavior or mental health? At any time in the last four weeks, did you need counseling or therapy from a mental health professional, but did not get it for any reason and so on.
这段话的意思是：听起来，他们似乎试图在这个非常非常紧张的时刻，对国家的现状进行一个“体温检查”或“脉搏测试”。我很好奇你是否可以加入一些心理健康方面的问题来了解当前的状况，特别是可能对比男女之间的情况。你觉得可以问些什么呢？嗯，斯蒂芬，这个问题我已经考虑过。我努力衡量年轻人的成长情况，但坦白说，年轻人的成长与我们其他人看起来很相似。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
But it sounds as though they're trying to take a temperature check, a pulse, as they call it, of the country at this very, very, very fraught moment. I'm just curious if you could write some mental health questions into this to see what's going on right now, especially maybe male versus female. What would you think about asking? Well, this is something I have thought about already, Stephen. So I try to measure thriving in young people, but honestly, thriving in young people looks a lot like thriving in the rest of us.
我有一个我称之为“繁荣指数”的衡量标准，它包含三个维度。其中两个尤其与我们所有人相关，那就是社交繁荣和情感繁荣。学术繁荣，比如说，在课堂上表现好有多重要？课程有多有趣？这些暂且不谈。所以我可以读给你听一些项目，也可以告诉你我在数以千计的美国青少年数据中观察到的性别差异。请说。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And I have a measure that I call the thriving index that has three dimensions. Two of them are especially relevant to all of us. Those are social thriving and emotional thriving. Academic thriving. Like, how important is it to do well in your classes? How interesting are classes? Let's leave that aside. So I can read you some of the items and I can also tell you what the gender differences are that I observe in data on thousands and thousands and thousands of American teenagers. Please.
关于社会幸福感，我想问，你觉得自己融入了吗？当你需要支持或建议时，有人可以依靠吗？有没有人总是希望你做到最好？这些都是关于社会繁荣的提问，无论你是哪个年龄段的人，我认为你都可以轻松回答。情感繁荣。这些问题是：最近你感觉快乐吗？最近你感觉放松吗？总体来说，你对自己现在的生活感觉如何？
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
So on social well-being, I ask, do you feel like you fit in? Is there someone you can turn to for support or advice if you need it? Is there someone who always wants you to do your best? These are questions of social thriving that I think you can easily answer if you are somebody of really any age, honestly. Emotional thriving. These questions are how happy have you been feeling these days? How relaxed have you been feeling these days? Overall, how do you feel about your life these days?
因为我们之前提到过，快乐并不是不快乐的反面，所以我们也会问，你最近感觉有多伤心？如果把这些问题结合起来，就可以探讨性别之间是否存在差异。研究发现，其实有显著的差异，大约是0.1个标准差，且男性占优。所以在社交幸福感上，男生的水平更高。在情感方面，比如快乐、放松等，男女之间的差异更大，大约有0.25个标准差，男性更占优势，差距是之前的两倍多。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And because, as we pointed out, happiness is not the opposite of unhappiness, we also ask, how sad have you been feeling these days? And if you take these together, then you say, hey, are there any gender differences? There is a significant difference. It's about a tenth of a standard deviation, and it's favoring guys. So the boys are higher in social well-being. On the emotional items, you know, happiness, relax, overall, then you actually have a quarter of a standard deviation difference favoring guys, so over twice as large.
我认为这与其他科学家的发现非常一致。因此，如果我要检查人们的状态，我肯定会询问他们对人际关系的感受，以及他们对情感和生活满意度的判断。如果我们在这些幸福感的衡量标准中持续发现性别差异，或者缺乏这些差异，我认为这确实是个重要的问题。在你问之前，我可能并没有像现在这样认真思考这个问题。你知道，美国的幸福感随着时间推移有所下降，无论是男性还是女性，然而女性的下降幅度更大。COVID-19 带来了作者称为近50年来未见过的急剧下降。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And I think that's pretty consistent with what other scientists find. So if I were taking a pulse check on how people are doing, I would definitely ask questions about how people feel about their relationships, and I would definitely ask them questions about their emotions and their judgment of life satisfaction. And if we consistently find gender differences in these measures of thriving, or the lack thereof, I mean, wow, I really do think this question is important. And until you asked it, I wasn't really thinking about as hard as maybe I should be. You know, happiness in the U.S. has fallen over time for both women and men, although it's fallen more for women. And COVID brought what the authors call a particularly sharp fall, unseen in 50 years.
这里有一个小小的好消息。作者指出，女性的幸福感比男性更加波动，而这一点在疫情期间尤为明显。尽管如此，他们认为女性具有更强的恢复力。换句话说，女性的幸福感跌落后能够反弹并有所恢复。不过虽然反弹幅度比男性大，但并没有高到超过男性的幸福水平。所以，如果你在讨论解决方案的话，《卫报》上有一篇文章，标题是《为了更快乐，女性应该放弃追求完美》。这位男性作者指出，男女之间确实存在幸福感差异。而文章的最后一句话提到，也许女性比男性更不快乐，是因为她们对自己的道德标准要求更高。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
There is a slight silver lining here. The authors write women's well-being is much more volatile than men's, which has been exacerbated during the pandemic. Although it does seem to have, they write, greater resilience. In other words, women bounced lower, but then recovered. But then they rebounded. They rebounded more than men, but they didn't rebound so high that their happiness level is higher than men's. So if you're talking about, you know, what's the solution? There was this article by a guy in The Guardian, and it was entitled, To Be Happier, Women Should Try Giving Up on Being Good. The male author was like, hey, there's this gender difference and happiness. And the last line in the essay is, maybe women are unhappier than men because they pin themselves to higher moral standards.
我觉得“快乐比做好人更重要”。也许女性可以试试看。当我（作为一个女人）听到这句话时，我的反应是：什么？我猜他是在试图搞笑。虽然我不确定是否明确指出了性别差异的建议，但我必须说，在物理课上，成绩是A的女生和成绩是C的男生的自信程度相同。所以这不仅仅关乎你重视什么，也关于你给自己设定的标准。我并不认为女性应该降低自己的期待，这对我来说并不是个好主意。不过你提到的一个很重要的点是，这至少有一部分是由于客观环境造成的。因此，如果我们能够努力改变这些客观环境，那可能是我最先考虑的建议。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think I would rather be happy than good. Women should try it. And I, as a woman, was like, what? I guess he's trying to be funny. I don't know whether there's a very clear prescriptive recommendation on the gender differences, but I have to say that I think that female students in physics class who are getting A's have the same level of confidence as men in the same physics class who are getting C's. So it's not only what you're valuing, but how high the bar is for yourself. I don't think it's that women should try to lower their expectations. That doesn't strike me as great. I do think what you were pointing to, which is at least some of this has to be because of objective circumstances. And so if we can try to change those, that would probably be my first recommendation.
然后，从内部角度来看，我认为有一些基于研究的建议，那就是反刍，这是一种女性往往比男性更常见的行为，并不是不可改变的。我们可以学习用其他方法来替代反刍。我们讨论了很多关于认知疗法的内容，但我也想说，另一个建议是，无论你是男生还是女生，如果你觉得自己不如想象中快乐，除了改变客观环境，还可以改变你对环境的看法。所以，我仔细听了你刚刚说的所有话，虽然内容很多，但对我而言，真正印象深刻的是，我应该抛开对道德的考量，这样可能会让我更快乐。这就是我从今天谈话中选择汲取的教训。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
And then on the internal side, I do think that there is some research-based recommendation, which is that rumination, which women do a lot more than men, is not hardwired. We can learn to actually do things that replace rumination. We talked a lot about cognitive therapy, but I'll just say that another prescriptive recommendation is that whether you're a guy or a girl, if you feel like you're not as happy as you want to be, then apart from changing objective circumstances, there's changing the way you think about your circumstances. So I did listen carefully to all the words you just said. There were a lot of words, but the only words that really registered for me were that I should put aside all morality and I will be happy. So that's the lesson I will choose to take away from today's conversation.
我认为这对男士或女士、男孩或女孩、狗或猫都适用。所以，安吉拉，非常感谢你告诉我们，为了快乐，我们只需放弃任何形式的道德审视。谢谢你。下次再聊。是的，我很高兴这对你有帮助，史蒂芬。现在，让我们来核实一下今天谈话的事实。在节目上半部分，史蒂芬说男性自杀的概率是女性的三到三倍半。据美国预防自杀基金会的数据，在美国，这个数字实际上更接近于四倍。在2020年，白人男性占该国自杀总数的70%。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
I think that works for men or women, boys or girls, dogs or cats. So, Angela, thank you so much for telling all of us that all we need to do to be happy is abandon any kind of moral reckoning. Thank you. I'll talk to you next time. Yeah, well, I'm glad that was helpful for you, Stephen. And now, here's a fact check of today's conversation. In the first half of the show, Stephen says that men die by suicide at a rate of three or three and a half times more frequently than women. According to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, in the United States, that number is actually closer to four. In 2020, white males accounted for 70% of all suicides in the country.
火器占所有自杀事件的53%。有趣的是，尽管疫情期间抑郁和焦虑的比例上升，2020年的自杀率反而下降了3%。后来，安吉拉表示她在上世纪80年代曾访问日本，她认为自那时起对女性的态度可能有所改变。尽管领导层在改善女性在政府和职场中的代表性方面承诺缓慢，世界经济论坛仍然称该国的性别差距是发达经济体中最大的。最后，安吉拉表示她认为女性比男性更有可能去接受心理治疗，但她对此并不确定。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Firearms accounted for 53% of all suicides. Interestingly, although depression and anxiety rates rose during the pandemic, suicide rates dropped by 3% in 2020. Later, Angela says that she visited Japan in the 1980s, and she thinks that attitudes towards women may have changed since then. In spite of leadership's slow-moving promises to improve women's representation in government and in the workforce, the World Economic Forum still describes the country's gender gap as, quote, the largest among advanced economies. Finally, Angela says that she thinks that women are more likely than men to go to therapy, but she wasn't certain.
她的直觉是正确的。根据美国疾病控制与预防中心的数据，2020年，有12.1%的美国女性接受过心理健康专业人士的咨询或治疗，相比之下，只有7.9%的男性有类似的经历。女性服用心理健康药物的比例也更高，21.2%的女性曾服药，而男性这个比例仅为11.5%。事实核查到此结束。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
Her instincts were correct. According to the CDC, in 2020, 12.1% of American women received counseling or therapy from a mental health professional, compared with 7.9% of men. Women were also more likely to have taken medication for their mental health. 21.2% of women, compared with just 11.5% of men. That's it for the fact check.
如果您或您的亲人有自杀的想法，请寻求帮助。在美国，您可以拨打全国自杀预防生命线的电话 800-273-8255。若需要美国以外的帮助，可以访问 findahelpline.com 获取联系信息。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
If you or a loved one is experiencing suicidal thoughts, help is available in the United States at the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. Call 800-273-8255. Contact information for help outside of the U.S. is available at findahelpline.com.
《没有愚蠢的问题》是Freakonomics广播网络的一部分。我们所有的节目都是由Renbud Radio制作的。《没有愚蠢的问题》是由我，Rebecca Lee Douglas制作的。本期节目由Eleanor Osborne混音。我们的主题曲是Talking Heads乐队的《And She Was》。特别感谢David Byrne和Werner Chapel Music。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
No Stupid Questions is part of the Freakonomics Radio Network. All our shows are produced by Renbud Radio. No Stupid Questions is produced by me, Rebecca Lee Douglas. This show was mixed by Eleanor Osborne. Our theme song is And She Was by Talking Heads. Special thanks to David Byrne and Werner Chapel Music.
要了解更多信息或阅读节目的文字记录，请访问 freakonomics.com 斜杠 NSQ。感谢收听。我们正在讨论女性不快乐的问题。你也可以换个角度问：男人们到底在干什么，为什么他们对自己和生活如此满意？Freakonomics Radio Network，一切事物的隐藏面。
▶ 英文原文 ⏱
To learn more or to read episode transcripts, visit freakonomics.com slash NSQ. Thanks for listening. We're kind of discussing this as the problem of women being unhappy. You could also flip this on its head and say like, what the hell are men doing so happy with themselves and their lives? The Freakonomics Radio Network, the hidden side of everything.